[ENGLISH] Discussions Générales en ANGLAIS !

Rappel du premier message :

Let's try and speak english now !

Are you ready? Ok gooooooooooooo!


_______________________
Sujet édité par THIAM Babel

Nonono... you probably misunderstood me, sama mag. As a human being (not as a woman) I affirm that people can love different people at the same time but, what I'm trying to say is that love is not the same.
For that reason I don't understant the purpose of the polygamy, you know...

Even more, to hide onself under the affirmation "one is not obliged to love all the wives in the same way but rather to treat them in the same way" or "polygamy is preferable to the divorce and adultery" is something incomprehensible.
Excuse me grand, but for me that sounds like some kind of excuse that infidel people use to say.

As you think the polygamy is an optimal matrimonial system... can you tell me one advantage at least?

Miss Hodei a écrit:what I'm trying to say is that love is not the same.
For that reason I don't understant the purpose of the polygamy, you know...

Tell me Miss Hodei,
if you have some children, will you be able to all love them in the same way?
Probably not. That doesn't depend on our will to love our children diiferently my Sister.

In the same way, it seems to be impossible for a man to love his wives in an indentical way.
What I want to tell you is: in Islam, it's not required and what is required is to treat them identically. If he does something for one of them, he is to do it for all the others.

you wrote:

Miss Hodei a écrit: Even more, to hide onself under the affirmation "one is not obliged to love all the wives in the same way but rather to treat them in the same way" or "polygamy is preferable to the divorce and adultery" is something incomprehensible.
Excuse me grand, but for me that sounds like some kind of excuse that infidel people use to say.

On the contrary, adopting polygamy is a sign of piety when one cannot support adultery or when one does not want to divorce.
Inaccurate people do not make this reasoning (about polygamy) but prefer rather to do everything in hiding-place and lie eternally to their wife.
Polygamy is authorized by the Almighty in certain cases and recognize that He's the wisest of all us.

you wrote:

Miss Hodei a écrit:
As you think the polygamy is an optimal matrimonial system... can you tell me one advantage at least?

You had to end the sentence. You oughtn't to truncate it because you omitted the part which is the most important. I said: "... optimal matrimonial system for some in certain cases.
The Moslems who have the financial resources and who are able to treat their wives in a right and equitable way and who are not enough with only one woman and who fear to make adultery would have the advantage of not making this sin if they were polygamous. This is an advantage for a religious man.
When a man has a harem at home, he is really not tempted to go to see elsewhere!
Inaccuracy can involve diseases like the HIV AIDS to the nonpolygamous man and who cannot be enough with only one woman.
Another advantage is to weave multiple family ties with various families and to also increase the community of the Moslems.
Polygamy also makes it possible to maintain (entretenir in French) a significant number of women and children.

Yeah exactly, grand!!! that's what I said!!

You cannot love in the same way different people but, you can love whatever it is the way you do it, different people, undersand?
For that reason, the polygamy is something rare for me.

ok.. let me say... The usual reason that people get married is 'cause they are in love, right? do we agree???
So, from my point of view, you can fall in love once at one time, do you get me???... you are in love, you get married, bla bla bla...
BUT if other woman come on stage and the man wants to be with that second one, for me, that means something doesn't work between the couple... probably the passion that he felt for her first wife disappeared and RIGHT NOW he loves the other.

Then, why carry the marriage on, sama mag??? the best thing is break up and start a new life with the person you love now.
Love is not eternal, I mean.

About religion stuff... oh man... I understand what Islam says but, it's not a justification.
I'm not talking about what is required or not even more, adopting polygamy is a sign of piety when one cannot support adultery - as you say - it doesn't say a lot for men in general.

So, your reasoning about because men prefer the polygamy rather than monogamy, it hasn't any sense.
I have always thought if something doesn't work it's much better open one's heart to the person in question than commit adultery BUT not for that reason is recommended the polygamy.

Hodei a écrit:Love is not eternal, I mean.

With regard to this assertion, I agree and I don't agree at the same time with you.
On the one hand,
Love is not for ever but, for me, it should (ideally I want to say) last at least until the day of the disappearance of one of the two partners!
On the other hand,
If the two partners realize that they cannot live any more together, it is better to end that union!

Hodei a écrit:
ok.. let me say... The usual reason that people get married is 'cause they are in love, right? do we agree???
So, from my point of view, you can fall in love once at one time, do you get me???... you are in love, you get married, bla bla bla...

I can't get you sister because I'm really sure that it is possible to love more than one woman at the same time.
Something which is impossible for you can be it for someone else.

Hodei a écrit:About religion stuff... oh man... I understand what Islam says but, it's not a justification.

I think that we will never agree because the simple fact of considering that the justification of polygamy by Islam is not valid, is an abomination for me!

All the problem is here!

Hodei a écrit:
your reasoning about because men prefer the polygamy rather than monogamy

I have never said that! Never in my life!
There are (some) men prefering polygamy! It's their right.
Polygamy is not a misery in all the cases as you think it. There are many women who open out with it.

As a conclusion, do not think that all the people implied in a marriage are it by love. It often arrives, very often even, that other reasons dominate passion. I do not say that it is the ideal model but it should be recognized that it is the case of several marriages and one cannot change the world.

Ca c'est la polygamie version English

Yes my baby,
That is the English version of the eternal debate about polygamy on which I am the only one to carry it out in the other direction since last year.

This young lady wants to make me believe that I cannot love you both, you and my first wife whereas It is exactly the contrary.

hun hun Darling that's sure and we somatch love you

That's a sufficient proof to make note that there are polygamous marriages which function wonderfully!

Parapapapa, I'm lovin' it.


Nice move guys. I'm very impressed!!!

Ah nononon, mon grand!!!! I don't want you to make see reason at all! People never change, they adapt theirselfs to different situations, that's all.
Neither of us will persuade the other and I don't want to.

I've never said that I'm against the polygamy (for others, I mean!) I'm just saying I don't understand that way of living.
As far as I concerned when love (between a couple) is ending, that's over.

You wrote "it is possible to love more than one woman at the same time".... maybe we are saying the same, grand... cause from my point of view "our problem" here is how we both understand the meaning of the word LOVE.

For me, in that case means passion for one of them and affection for the other (and that's possible, of course).... probably for you that means love for both fo them...I don't know...
Anyway, in any case we agree with that BUT we don't with poligamy stuff.

There's nothing in common... just because three people "love" each other it doesn't mean that they have to marry.
do you get me?

Do you accept the other way round: "polyandrie"?

hello my dear Sister!

Hodei a écrit:Ah nononon, mon grand!!!! I don't want you to make see reason at all! People never change, they adapt theirselfs to different situations, that's all.
Neither of us will persuade the other and I don't want to.

That is what I was saying since the beginning of the debate! You see, we have sometimes common points of view.

Hodei a écrit:
I've never said that I'm against the polygamy (for others, I mean!) I'm just saying I don't understand that way of living.

It is precisely because you cannot understand this kind of love that I am trying to show you why it is legal and legitimate.

Probably, you're right when you say that we haven't the same definition of the word LOVE because love, for me, can include more than two persons. Love have many meanings for me, try to see in the french part a subject titled: "Diverses définitions du mariage". There, we are not exactly talking about love only but love is fundamental in a union.

Mathematically, affection, passion,... are feelings included in love. They are fundamental components of LOVE. One cannot separate them from it.

You were asking me if I accept polyandry.
I can't because even most part of the women do not accept it any, so much it is dirty and humanly unbearable.

Moreover, if a kid were born from a polyandrous relation, it would be necessary to have to go to see a gynaecologist to determine his father's name. Everyone, especially those who would practise this kind of relation, could not be able to get this luxury.

Do you get what I wanna say, my sister?

Yeah Miss Hodei, what do you think about talking about another subject of society. Have you got any idea of subject?

Hi Modou,

I would like to ask you a question before you move on to another topic...
Why is it that you think polyandry is dirty and humanly inbearable, but polygamy (polygyny) is totally acceptable?
Is it only because it is a custom in Senegalese society that you approve of polygamy but dissaprove of polyandry?
Because to me both forms of marriage are equal, the only difference is that you will get more children out of polygamy. But that doesn't mean that polyandry is dirty and inbearable.... Why is it accepted when a man sleeps with different women, but not when a woman sleeps with different men?
I think polygamy exists because men are afraid of the power of women and it is easier to control them when people have polygamous instead of polyandrous marriages...

Ohoo
Welcome dear San in this topic. I'm very happy to see you in! You're wonderful!

I'll try to answer to you in a few minutes or hours!

I think, we have to create different subjects, then we'll be able to talk about different things at the same time.

Soon!

I was afraid you would reply NO to my question... it really upsets me that you make this remark grand!
I don't understand neither of this two ways of living but I ACCEPT them ALL.

Your beliefs are something incomprehensible for me at all, man... WHY??? if polygamy is legitimate, polyandry too! THANKS San
Is it relationated to religion?!?!? (man, I will never get you guys...)

Moreover... determinate the father's name?!?!? but, in what century do you live mon grand Modou??

Anyway... I say that because that subject for me, it is not important at all... and, unless a woman has sex with her two, three or whatever it is the number of husbans she has at the same time, she knows who the father is!

Bref, you are right... we should talk about other things 'cause I really tired of discussing about polygamy in english and read it in French.
So... let's talk about... any ideas, mon pote?

Hodei a écrit:it really upsets me that you make this remark

Then excuse me, you're a friend of mine since you allow me to speak Enghish.

Hodei a écrit:Bref, you are right... we should talk about other things 'cause I really tired of discussing about polygamy in english and read it in French.

I don't really understand what you wanna say.
I asked you to see that subject to get more information because It's not very easy for me to say the same thing all day long!

Hodei a écrit:
Is it relationated to religion?!?!?

Yes, Islam authorize polygamy but not polyandry.

Hodei a écrit:
Moreover... determinate the father's name?!?!? but, in what century do you live mon grand Modou??

Anyway... I say that because that subject for me, it is not important at all... and, unless a woman has sex with her two, three or whatever it is the number of husbans she has at the same time, she knows who the father is!

It would be (perhaps) easy for you to know exactly the name of your father's son in that case but it wouldn't be so easy for everybody.

I'm coming San, wait a minute!

San a écrit:Why is it that you think polyandry is dirty and humanly inbearable, but polygamy (polygyny) is totally acceptable?

First, polygamy is not "totally" accepted but for some in certain cases.
Then, I think that a woman wouldn't accept to receive those different things (from different men) in her. Understand what I want to say, my education does not enable me to be vulgar.
That's men who give "that thing" to women and not the contrary. That is why It could be seen as dirty to have sex with different men for a woman. I don't think that good women would accept this kind of relation!

In addition, I do not think that men, who are in genral warlike and very strong, could accept to divide their wives with someone else. Polyandry would create only problems!


What you should understand also is that in a marriage, the most important thing is not inevitably the sex for everyone. People get married for many reasons in which there is, very often, love but not only it.

sister San a écrit:Is it only because it is a custom in Senegalese society that you approve of polygamy but dissaprove of polyandry?
Because to me both forms of marriage are equal, the only difference is that you will get more children out of polygamy.

Probably, my opinion will depend on the formatting which I underwent from Senegalese society. Moreover, I believe that everyone always reasons by taking account of the things that one made him believe. But, that does not prevent him in certain cases from having different points of view on certain subjects. That was to say to you that the Senegalese society had, indeed, an influence on my opinions on this topic.

San a écrit:I think polygamy exists because men are afraid of the power of women and it is easier to control them when people have polygamous instead of polyandrous marriages...

This can be also one of the multiple reasons. I agree with you , sister San.

Thant you !

ok ok ok... I thought you wanted to talk about other topics, grand...

Anyway... you wrote "It would be (perhaps) easy for you to know exactly the name of your father's son in that case but it wouldn't be so easy for everybody."
I want to reply this.

The polyandry is a matrilineal system (a system in which one belongs to one's mother's lineage) a line of descent from a female ancestor to adescendant (of either sex) in which the individuals in all intervening generations are female.

In a matrilineal descent system (uterine descent), an individual is considered to belong to the same descent group as his or her mother.

Mitochondrial DNA (mt-DNA) is normally inherited exclusively from one's mother - both daughters and sons inherit it all the same. .

Mitochondrial Eve (mt-mrca) is the name given by researchers to the woman who is the matrilineal most recent common ancestor for all living humans, from whom all mt-DNA in living humans is derived.

She is believed by some to have lived about 150,000 years ago in what is now Ethiopia, Kenya or Tanzania.

A woman's all children (both boys and girls) normally inherit their all mt-DNA heritage from the mother, and it consequently comes frommother's mother, and so on.
Logically, it is easier to identify who the mother of a child is than the father but, it really doesn't care because is a matrilineal system.

Buff.... sorry for all that scientific stuff... it's inherent in me

Don't worry sister, I like scientific resonings better than others! Thank you for all these informations.

What I wanted to say is: "A woman who get married to more than one man can have more problems to know excatly the the father's name of her child than a man legally married to several women".
This reasoning supposes of course that there is a perfect fidelity in the case of polygamy.

waawaaw mon cher Modou... I agree.... it's for reason that I wrote "Logically, it is easier to identify who the mother of a child is than the father but, it really doesn't care because is a matrilineal system."

let's talk about other subject?

Go on!

I was trying to talk about numbers in the part of the riddles!

about numbers???

Not here but there!

With you, I won't talk about numbers; don't worry.

Find another interesting subject in which we could have different points of view!

why don't you want to talk about numbers with me???
and why I have to find an interesting topic??

Ok what do you thing for changing this topic name?
Who get any proposition?

It's not an English course yet but "I don't know" !
So it's very interesting.
Ok we move now from the "English course" to the "Any proposition please??? "

Thank for your participation and we will found a new topic on which, discussions would took place !

Corriger-moi mes fautes please

Damm, who are you and what have you done with THIAM?? (I thought about the topic stuff, dude)

Excuse me, siter, what are you talking about?

about your NEW english, man...

I don't understand, please tell me what want you explain in "

REWARD

20cfa

WANTED

DEATH OR ALIVE

! !

THIAMMMMMM

It's a poster of proclaiming Reward for the wanted suspect brought in Dead or Alive... like in Far West...
oh man... I have to teach you so many things...

Ok ok I see now!
You know, I am not a great "film lover" !
Then I never see a Far West production movie in my life
But, whay you try to use Cfa?
You had to use $ and it would be much easier for me to decode it !

Ok now it's ok, I see and I see clearly what do you mean !

So please (corrigez mes fautes, je tue l'anglais, I need HEILP )

great then!
your english is not as bad as you think, man... just some mistakes with verbs and structures but... hey... well done!

I never see a Far West production -- I've never seen a Far West production.

THIAM Babel a écrit:Ok what do you thing for changing this topic name?
Who get any proposition?

It's not an English course yet but "I don't know" !
So it's very interesting.
Ok we move now from the "English course" to the "Any proposition please??? "

Thank for your participation and we will found a new topic on which, discussions would took place !

Corriger-moi mes fautes please

Yeah dear friend,

Since friday, I have had the idea to propose you to creat a part (a forum in the forumists' jargon ) in which we'll be able to hold different discussions in different subjects.

What do you think about this idea?

Miss Hodei, I just wanted you to choose a subject in which you would have strong arguments to defend and me too. That's why I asked you if you had any other subject on which we could have different points of view.

Would you like talking about abortion?

I was just kidding, mon cher Modou...
That's great... abortion!
go on... 'cause I'M SURE we'll have different point of view!

Men first...

Yes, you're right!

For me, abortion is a crime . The woman who falls through commits the same crime as someone who cuts the throat of a person with a saber. Any life is invaluable.

I know that it is unhappy to lose one's life while wanting to give the life and this is why I think that only the pregnancies with risk must be stopped.

Repression must be required in any other case.

I must go home now because it is time and I'm a little ill: I have caught a cold. I don't go either in the Internet the night.
So, see you tomorrow (Inchallah)!

Have a good evening!

As I thought... nothing in common.

In that case this debate is not so simple and we must trackle it without taking things lightly, man.
There are a lot of things to consider, grand and you don't have to resort to the easy sentence "abortion is a crime".

There are two points of view... yours, the pro-life point (you believe that human life should be valued from fertilisation until natural death) and mine, the pro-choise point.

I believe that women should have access to safe and legal abortion.
Some see abortion as a last resort, and focus on a number of situations where they feel abortion is a necessary option. Among these situations are those where the woman was raped, her health or life (or that of the fetus) is at risk, contraception was used but failed, or she feels unable to raise a child.

The debate around moral rights usually revolves around one main question: Is the fetus a person?

So, if the fetus is a person then it would have the rights accorded to persons, ok... but some ethicists have argued that our notion of personhood relates to a being's possession of the capacities for reason and self-consciousness, and that therefore Homo sapiens without these characteristics should not be considered persons.

Since children in the fetal stages of development do not possess such capacities, I argue that they should not be considered persons too.

Hello,

There I am again. As usual a bit late with my reply...

I still have something to say about the polygamy topic, if I may. Modou, yours is a typically male point of view. Men always want to dominate and therefore they see no problem in women having to share a man, but when it comes to men sharing the same woman, aiaiaiai..... They don't want to hear about it.

Hodei I totally agree with you. It seems that you had some sort of anthropological education, am I right? Well I like your way of reasoning, also about abortion.
I think that there are several situations when an abortion could be necessary, as Hodei stated above..

I think the debate about abortion is a delicate one, because there are so many questions and nuances to be considered. I don't think a straightforward answer can easily be given, it is more a matter of weighing the pros and cons...

Hi there San.

I have a scientific education in fact and, thanks God it seems I'm not alone in this world!!

As Modou disappeared... do you wanna talk about other topic? and it is NOT necessary to have different points of view, you know.... just let's have a chat, ok?

Modou did not disappear.
Only, it is not a pleasure for him when while discussing with himto take his reflexions as directed against women. My mother's a woman and for that I respect all the women all around the world.

San a écrit:
I think that there are several situations when an abortion could be necessary, as Hodei stated above..

I agree completely with you (a mother risking her life could resort to it for me) but abortion is too often practised for unjust and unjustifiable reasons: The couple in question does not want a girl because a girl costs more expensive and is more difficult to educate (cf Indian society), one does not want of the child because this one is conceived apart from marriage (it is one of the most frequent cases in Senegal), or one is quite simply not ready to support the load which a child constitutes,...

I would be ready to discuss with you if you could accept certain obvious truths.

ok ladies and gentlt men i am coming to give some sentenses.so... i come back, i am going to take some milk.

I would ready to discuss with you if you could accept certain obvious truths

Are you talking to me?
'cause I really don't know why you said "accept certain obvious truths"

join us 20zero!! after your milk, of course

think you dearling Honei,I'll be happy to do something pour you.if you want you will be my guest for taking milk with me.so...I'm going to take another cup of milk and I come back after.

20zero... if you want to do something with Honei, then you must talk to her
but, if you are referring to me then... I will be your guest, in French, English or Wolof... but, just suggest something man!!

I talk to you.sorry but I'm doing un mistake.Honey is a good girl but I prefer your hand.in any langage that you want,il call you only in my nice room.so..I come back you know what I'm going to do

where's your nice room indeed, 20zero??? propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose, propose!!!!!

I need a l¡me tea

Hodei a écrit:
I would be ready to discuss with you if you could accept certain obvious truths

Are you talking to me?
'cause I really don't know why you said "accept certain obvious truths"

It was neither for you particularly nor for San particularly but for everyone who wants to discuss with me.

So, what do you think about my last message into the topic?

My dear Modou...
listen... before your last message posted above, I just explained my point of view, clearly and openness... just have a look, again.

But, even if a woman wants to have an abortion, it doesn't matter what her reasons are, I STILL believe that women should have access to safe and legal abortion.

and I am a man who like a beautiful and intelligent girl like you.I'm going to tell you something who make you happy.yes dearling want take you...ok I come back,I'm going to take some tea

Hodei a écrit:My dear Modou...
listen... before your last message posted above, I just explained my point of view, clearly and openness... just have a look, again.

But, even if a woman wants to have an abortion, it doesn't matter what her reasons are, I STILL believe that women should have access to safe and legal abortion.

I'll never agree with this! Never in my life !
If ever decision-making powers were allotted to me, I would condemn to death any woman killing his foetus voluntarily for unjust reasons! For me, a foetus is a real human being and must be respected as much as a 25 year old young man !

Safe and legal abortion, Yes but only when the life of the woman is in danger.

"I would condemn to dead any woman killing his foetus voluntarily for unjust reasons"
ok... that's all then. No more to say.
better another topic....


20zero... man, I just give it up...